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Project diva homemade controllers

Discussion in 'Tutorial Area - By users for users!' started by nofutur, Jul 20, 2016.

  1. colonelmasako

    colonelmasako Welcome to DIVA!

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    Very nice controller. I'm very interested in the vector graphics surrounding the buttons and the 10th anniversary thing, all legit looking from the cab. Also the arcade future tone logo. Mind sharing?
     
  2. Drek

    Drek Welcome to DIVA!

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    Thank you. No problem for sharing.
    I simply found the logos with google image. Future tone logo borders are not clean but it's ok for small size printing.
    For the button graphics, i drew it myself with Inkscape. I give you the original .svg vector file and a PNG extract. It is not exactly the same size and font as the cab, but looks great.

    https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0BwA9Y1YmUTkoeXlwalN1N19IUWM?usp=sharing
     
  3. nofutur

    nofutur IYA IYA!!

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    I saw several new project and this cute little baby lol

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Trejkaz

    Trejkaz Welcome to DIVA!

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    I managed to get a prototype touch slider with 16 elements working to the point that it can tell me when fingers start and stop moving, and the same technique should work fine for 32 (or 48, for that matter...) and for any capacitive controller.

    Current blockers for my own project:
    • I want to know what components the real touch slider is using. Part numbers if possible, or if not, whether it is 32 independent sensor units, or one unit with 32 electrodes, or some combination like my own prototype... If the real part exists, maybe that can be used.
    • I want to light up the touch panel like the real thing, but I can't tell from outside the machine whether it's 32 LEDs or 64 LEDs, because there is that fancy plastic stuff blocking the view. Someone with the real thing should be able to easily check. (What I can see is that there is some kind of plastic channel directing the light so that it only lights up immediately in front...)
    • The real thing's LEDs light up as you touch the sensors and seem to light up twice as strong if you have two fingers on the same sensor, and I'm wondering how I'm going to do that detail, but considering ignoring it. (Every sensor is analog but I don't really know if I can afford the time to get analog readings for all sensors.)
    • I am looking for diagrams of the panel and all the sizes and angles. I do have a lot of photos from the last trip to Japan but every time I find something I'm missing, having to wait until the next trip sucks.
    • Figuring out how I'm going to do power. If I can somehow get LED bulbs for the main buttons then there is a question of whether I can scrape through with just the USB power supply. (If I have to use the real bulbs then obviously I'm forced to use external power as well.)
    It seems like a long road, and I'm constantly worried that Hori is going to release something usable at some point, but now it's looking more like they won't, which is good for motivation.
     
  5. colonelmasako

    colonelmasako Welcome to DIVA!

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    I can answer some of your questions, you are a few months of work behind where I was before I got busy, but I'm motivated to finish it. Well done on progress so far.

    1. The real touch slider is a piece of custom shaped PCAP film, like used on touch screens. Sectioned out to 32 sections, but the sense changes between those points. In the test menu, you'll see the threshold increase and decrease between these parts as you slide across. As a result the touch controller and PCB and all that is likely all endemic to Sega's designs, and I'm fairly convinced this same sensor is used for Chunithm for the main slider for that game. You won't be able to buy this even if you had the part number. And I've looked, no one makes a 24" x 3" PCAP film, but would for the low NRE cost of $8k from one source. In my opinion, 32 is overkill. I got mine working with 10, so there is that

    2. Its a piece of acrylic side lit with standard spaced RGB Leds. The Sega board has them precisely mounted, but you can (and I have) achieve the same effect with side lighting with an RGB LED strip. Harder to assemble, trying to figure that out, but it looks good when you do it.

    3. I would ignore the intensity part of the lighting of the white. My touch sensor can track my movements across the elements by turning on the white LED, but that is constant on or off (a sperate LED in my RGB lights, instead of the white being the combo of R, G, and B). It works fine and looks like the arcade to me.

    4. Look a few posts back, I put up my measurements from the actual manual from the game.

    5. Power will be complex for mine, I imagine you'll want to follow my method there. I need to power the LED strip, the touch control board, and the lights for the buttons. The LED strip is very bright and has its own wall wart, a USB charger can be used to power the other boards, lights from the buttons might work at 5V but maybe a seperate 12V supply should be part of this, or something that generates 5V from the 12V mains. Many ways to skin this cat.

    I wouldn't worry about Hori creating a slider based controller. Its expensive, and hard to mass produce. The margins would be too small I would think for them, and the demand is not there. I mean it is, but not at their level.

    Once I make more progress I'll stop being lazy and upload more pics to share. If you need help with the LED code, I'm happy to share that, since I just hacked what I found from others to work for me, and likely it will work with yours.
     
  6. correllroy

    correllroy Welcome to DIVA!

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    I'm actually new to this and trying to work on bulding for the controller. I really REALLY want to build one with the REAL slider for that Arcade nostalgic feel. :) so I wanna build one based from the ACTUAL Arcade button layout [with PS4 modifications. HHeres a blueprint preview [W.I.P] and I do have one question:

    • Is it reall possible to make a real fuctional working touch slider for a controller? Like is there a material to mimick the clear touch slider? I felt the arcade cabinet slider and feel that I can see this being possible and know it should require LOADS of programming "00011000" of a functional sliding, I know I can use DS4 touch chipset but is too small compare to arcade.

      I know making this a LONG LONG project, but Im willing to put in the work and the money to this controller :)
     

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  7. colonelmasako

    colonelmasako Welcome to DIVA!

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    At the rate I'm going, I'll be able to sell the touch slider module for controller designs, and in its final form it will be like the arcade one in terms of feel and look. Early tests say yes, its possible, all it is is capactive touch technology through a thin (1/8") piece of acrylic, side lit with LEDs.

    Build your own, or follow my progress, either way its going to get done. Like I said a few posts back, I literally went from parts in hand to fully working slider within 1 week, so anything is possible. Proper motivation produces results, you can do it I'm sure. Your blueprint sketch is EXACTLY the same idea I had for my first build btw, great minds think alike

    This thread is by far the most comprehensive combination of ideas for controllers I've found on the net, so its the best place to lurk. Also, its not "loads" of programming, LED control plus the slide logic algorithm takes up 120 lines of code for my arduino sketch.
     
  8. correllroy

    correllroy Welcome to DIVA!

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    thats a good possibily of mimicking the slider.

    Oh wow! I just lookat at ur design xD Only difference is the four smaller buttons [WIP might change to analog, the smaller ones is suppose to be the directional buttons for Up, Down, Left, and Right], Im working on the blueprint for the slider, thats the only part I havent done yet.

    I love looking for more inspiration and helpful ideas and share controllers. :) Community controllers designs look so beautiful, especial when some uploads with the plate design.
     
  9. Doctopus

    Doctopus Big Debut

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    #49 Doctopus, Dec 23, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2017
    This post is really informative. It helped me a lot on designing my own controller, mainly on the look and feel part and some information on the implementation of the official controller (especially the drawing of the official controller posted by @colonelmasako. Thank you very much)

    As a return, I would like to share my implementation and some of my other ideas on the sliding controller that might help others decide which types of slider to use/implement.

    My implementation uses a SoftPot, which is a potentiometer that acts as a resistive touch slider/position sensor. It can be bought fairly easily online from major electronics distributors for a relatively affordable price. I chose the 500mm version mainly because it matches the size of the original PCT slider. Multi-touch (2 point) support is implemented by measuring the resistance from both sides of the potentiometer instead of using it normally as a single voltage divider (thanks to a YouTube video that makes me realize that it is possible). It can offer sensing at very high resolution (way beyond the official 32 positions, though I highly doubt that official sliders using other techniques, e.g. interpolation, to improve the sensing resolution) depends on the ADC you are using. One drawback of my implementation is that it requires some force to operate the SoftPot, much like the old resistive touch screens. However the force required is relatively low (0.7N to 1N on normal room temperature according to the datasheet) and unlikely affect my gameplay because I tend to use more force than necessary even on the official PCT slider to make sure good contact. Also, the friction between the finger and the SoftPot will become pretty large if too much force was applied, therefore wearing a pair of gloves is highly recommended during the gameplay. Again I do this personally when I play on the official arcade controller (and other music games such as maimai) to prevent potential injuries and reduce frictions.

    Some other ideas that I abandoned but other people may find it useful:
    • 32 channel PCT (or other capacitive sensing) slider. This was the most "stock" way of implementing the slider. Making a simple one could be easy and inexpensive (use, e.g. Microchip's QTouch/QMatrix PCT controller or even some micro's built-in touch sensing core). However it requires you to fabricate your own PCB/FPCB and it could be very costly if you repeatedly make bad design decisions (especially if you are not already familiar with capacitive sensing technologies), thus high R&D cost. Also a really long (500mm) capacitive slider may became really noisy due to the extended length of sensing lines.
    • FTIR (Frustrated Total Internal Reflection) (Not Future Tone something ;P). Basically using a infrared-illuminated acrylic sheet as a touch panel and an infrared camera (e.g. Wiimote blob tracking camera) on the back to detect light blobs corresponding to your touch input. This could be working well when correctly implemented but since it is camera based, it requires a long distance between camera and the touch panel (50cm-1m depends on the camera's FOV) and thus not suitable for a controller-only setup (however if you are building a full-sized cabinet it may worth a try).
    • FTIR, but using 32 isolated, high sensitivity photodiodes instead of a camera as the sensor. This might work but may requires lots of tuning on the sensitivity of the photodiode and the design of the cell that holds them. Also it uses a lot of ADC pins or requires one or more analog multiplexers.
    • Other possible ideas that are available on NUI Group Wiki. They are generally helpful (although I didn't use any of them, it was a good brainstorming process)
     
  10. Doctopus

    Doctopus Big Debut

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    bbcon.jpg

    Introducing BBCon (The Breadboard Controller), the (probably) smallest Project Diva controller over the world XDD (jk

    And no it is not GIMX based. It is completely independent and can run without a PC (It does use the same technique that GIMX uses to emulate the DS4 though).

    Now almost all the hard parts were done. I just need to actually design and make the case, buy all the buttons and asemble them together :D

    BTW: this build does not include a slider, but adding it is trivial (I just don't want to stick the softpot on my table).
     
  11. nofutur

    nofutur IYA IYA!!

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    I was looking for something on yahoo auction and my dream finaly came true, we can find the Future tone cab panel controller for 30000 to 50000 yen. It's second hand, not brand new, not that expensive (for 30K yen) and we can find it in the arcade controller stuff.

    [​IMG]

    More sexy:
    [​IMG]
     
    ajs2677 likes this.
  12. Doctopus

    Doctopus Big Debut

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    By the way @colonelmasako you said that SEGA did something ridiculous on the official implementation of slider. What exactly did they do? Did they split the slider into zones using multiple touch controllers? Or it was just because they added 32 electrodes to the slider?
     
  13. Doctopus

    Doctopus Big Debut

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    The parameters of Sanwa OBSA-SP-200G spring (I can't find them anywhere so I decided to post it just in case that someone wants to find an alternative supplier for these springs. Although I already searched major hardware suppliers such as McMaster-Carr and Fastenal and no perfect match was found. Seems that sprins of this size are all way too hard for buttons (500gf/cm to kgf/cm range, where the hardest OBSA-SP was ~400gf/cm))

    Code:
    Length l=26.5mm=1.043"
    Compressed length lcomp=7mm=0.276"
    Outer diameter od=14.4mm=0.567"
    Wire diameter wd=0.7mm=0.0276"
    Inner diameter id=13mm=0.512"
    Spring constant k=200gf/cm=1.12lbf/in (not really sure about this one. I (very roughly) measured this (by putting a new 3ds xl on top of the spring and carefully centering it) and what I got was roughly 175gf/cm although I suppose that it should be 200gf/cm according to the model number (200G))
     

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